Curse

RotteN · Jul 31, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

a build that doesnt require the player to look at the screen too much, every1 knows exactly what hes gonna do, and MOST builds out there cant stand the slightest chance to beat (or you counter it or your chance is 0%..) IS overpowered and NEEDS a nerf.

- you'll have to look at your screen no matter which build you run
- you can predict what it's gonna do for a lot of builds, what's your point ?
- i've never lost to touchrangers, not planning on ever doing so.

so basically, you're saying that touchrangers are fine, and don't need any nerf at all

LordLucifer · Jul 31, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

- you'll have to look at your screen no matter which build you run
- you can predict what it's gonna do for a lot of builds, what's your point ?
- i've never lost to touchrangers, not planning on ever doing so.

so basically, you're saying that touchrangers are fine, and don't need any nerf at all

-you really dont even have to look to beat ppl with touchers, i did it myself, many times, literally
-my point is, you can predict what hes gonna do and unless you have some very spefic counter skills you cant do a thing abt them at all
-well good for you, too bad the rest of the world play with 7 skills+rez sig in PvP instead of 6 skills+rez sig+the exclusive counter just for touchers

KamikazeChicken · Jul 31, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

-you really dont even have to look to beat ppl with touchers, i did it myself, many times, literally
-my point is, you can predict what hes gonna do and unless you have some very spefic counter skills you cant do a thing abt them at all
-well good for you, too bad the rest of the world play with 7 skills+rez sig in PvP instead of 6 skills+rez sig+the exclusive counter just for touchers

-Anyone playing a melee-ranged character can PvP RA/TA/AB without looking at the screen. As long as you know the key commands, you're able to attack anything that's hostile and in range. You probably won't be attacking the best possible target, but I wouldn't expect a toucher to know who it would be anyway.

-You're an idiot, if you know what the other person is going to do and still can't counter it. If you see a toucher coming at you, kite. How hard is that? Now, instead of being spammed by all their skills, you'll get hit by 1 skill periodically.

-Along with kiting, Monks can out heal touchers, snares can stop touchers cold, knock downs stop them, skill counters would also work, but none of the above are required to stop from being killed. You could kite the SoB to the other side of the map, and it's your own team's fault for being unable to take down an overextended target, while he's away from his monk.

-Why do people continue to think that they must take a specific counter to stop touchers? Kiting is your best friend. It's also not unlikely to end up being thrown together with an ice snarer, crip ranger, trapper, monk, etc. that has a "counter" among it's regular skill selection.

-Honestly, I guess this type of build would be something to wreak havoc against mostly PvE-oriented individuals, but that doesn't make it overpowered. I wish people would just change their own tactics/learn to beat things with what they have, instead of always calling for the nerf bat. I'm just glad Izzy knows what really does and doesn't need a nerf. ^_^ GG Izzy.

LordLucifer · Jul 31, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

-Anyone playing a melee-ranged character can PvP RA/TA/AB without looking at the screen. As long as you know the key commands, you're able to attack anything that's hostile and in range. You probably won't be attacking the best possible target, but I wouldn't expect a toucher to know who it would be anyway.

any1 can play and not look at the screen but not win easily doing so

Quote:

--You're an idiot, if you know what the other person is going to do and still can't counter it. If you see a toucher coming at you, kite. How hard is that? Now, instead of being spammed by all their skills, you'll get hit by 1 skill periodically.

"touchy" arent we? lol, anyway, pretending you still got credit after the comment.. well good, you see a toucher you run in cicles and thats it, gg that solves everything if you havent the specific counters

Quote:

--Along with kiting, Monks can out heal touchers, snares can stop touchers cold, knock downs stop them, skill counters would also work, but none of the above are required to stop from being killed. You could kite the SoB to the other side of the map, and it's your own team's fault for being unable to take down an overextended target, while he's away from his monk.

monks can outheal almost anything, that doesnt mean its ok, and problem with touchers was never the dmg itself, but the good DPS+just the same self healing rate, if you didnt know abt that then what are you doing in a toucher thread?

Quote:

--Why do people continue to think that they must take a specific counter to stop touchers? Kiting is your best friend. It's also not unlikely to end up being thrown together with an ice snarer, crip ranger, trapper, monk, etc. that has a "counter" among it's regular skill selection.

no repeating myself here..

Quote:

-Honestly, I guess this type of build would be something to wreak havoc against mostly PvE-oriented individuals, but that doesn't make it overpowered. I wish people would just change their own tactics/learn to beat things with what they have, instead of always calling for the nerf bat. I'm just glad Izzy knows what really does and doesn't need a nerf. ^_^ GG Izzy.

yes, lets all "change tactics" because of a single build and make everybody play alike, gg
and no, i play MMORPGs or many years and this is the very 1st time i ask something to be nerfed, reasons are obvious

KamikazeChicken · Jul 31, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

any1 can play and not look at the screen but not win easily doing so

Any melee-ranged character can play just as well as a toucher, while not looking at the screen. I wouldn't suggest monks or other casters trying to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

"touchy" arent we? lol, anyway, pretending you still got credit after the comment.. well good, you see a toucher you run in cicles and thats it, gg that solves everything if you havent the specific counters

Kiting is not running in circles. That's precisely why most Guru people can't kite worth a damn because they never bother learning the proper way. It's obviously too much work reading any pvp-guides. The only time running in a circle is effective is in Ward of Melee and possibly Ward of Stability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

monks can outheal almost anything, that doesnt mean its ok, and problem with touchers was never the dmg itself, but the good DPS+just the same self healing rate, if you didnt know abt that then what are you doing in a toucher thread?

Touchers end up sacing themselves down to less than half health in no time. Touchers have a relatively high dps, if people refuse to kite. Their damage is considerably decreased just by kiting or snaring. Touchers also lack the ability to inflict deep wound, knock down, or heal themselves properly. Touchers are easily picked off, and people still shouldn't be having problems against this build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordLucifer

yes, lets all "change tactics" because of a single build and make everybody play alike, gg
and no, i play MMORPGs or many years and this is the very 1st time i ask something to be nerfed, reasons are obvious

Everyone doesn't have to change their tactics because it's obvious some people learned how to kite and properly PvP. You still need practice, if you're being consistently owned by touchers. There has yet, and will never, be any good reasoning to nerf this build. You all need to learn to deal with that because it's not going to happen.

LordLucifer · Jul 31, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

#1 no it doest work like that at all

#2 i didnt mean literally *sigh* but check 2nd last post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072605&page=9

#3 ppl shouldnt but they do, why? because like i said many times, unless you CAN do some specific counters, all you can do is run from them.

#4 i dont have so many problems with them, in RA i fought against a 4 toucher team, (we went to TA) i was using the premade dervish (just spamming AoE cripple and kiting, nothing more) we had a monk, a paragon and something else i dont remember, but we won (noone else with snare may i add) problem with them isnt me losing, its the build itself that is overpowered and needs a fix (not to say nerf again) just by being capable of killing many easily and doesnt require skills AT ALL to play

Mostly Harmless · Aug 02, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Noticed that the changes proposed by some of the 'nerf' posts would nerf other builds, not just Touch Rangers.
- Making expertise only apply to Ranger skills would also nerf Ranger/Warrior builds [eg Bunny Thumpers] which don't need nerfing.
- Increasing the recharge on necro touch skills would affect all necro touch builds, not just Touch Rangers.

I am not certain that Touch Rangers really do need 'nerfing' at all, but if it is decided that they do, then surely the best way would be one that affects only Touch Ranger builds [eg making Vamp Touch/Bite spells instead of skills].

SnipiousMax · Aug 02, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I generally play Boon Prot when my guild plays PvP (low end, usually only four on at a time) and we always run some form of a balanced group. We have yet to lose to a group of four touchers. Let alone 3, 2, or 1 toucher.

Cogline Boh · Aug 03, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Ive been playing touch ranger in RA for last week and cant say thats its over run with the build , especially in last few days there seems to be a lot of specific anti toucher builds flying around. As usual the win had a lot to do with the random team composition. I think RA is more likely to be over run with cripshots and anti touch mes builds in the next few weeks especially with the hassle that touchers get , (toucher noob if u win toucher noob if you lose.)
It does make me wonder where the warriors place in RA and PVE is now though.The warrior should be the strongest melee character,in RA without a monk the W/E and W/R are rendeed useless and dispatched very quickly by a toucher. In PVE im using toucher in shiverpeaks and in iron mines/thunderhead keep and the build is devastating.To be honest against heavily armored jade, zealots etc the toucher makes warriors look useless.Only advantage they have ......balanced stance . Im going to take my ranger to end of prophecies and see how he fares , only problem area i can see is ring of fire energy depleting ether seals . Im not saying toucher is better in these missions than a good balanced ranger build, just that the toucher is a lot better in melee in these missions than a warrior is.

mongolman08 · Aug 04, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Touch Rangers are a brilliantly thought up build and very fun to play but like all builds we do have our weaknesses. Over long range is where most the damage comes and they only seem powerfull because of all the noobs playing and getting owned by them.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 04, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

touch rangers are to single char builds, as are iway is to hoh group builds imo, extreme weaknesses, but only have to spam a couple skills

Evilsod · Aug 04, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

The only reason why i would ever consider bringing Touch skills on a necro is the fact they ignore Spellbreaker and Shadow Form. Make them spells, there is no way to justify the 15 energy cost, or any reason why i should bring them.
Its not always fun when your stuck trying to kill an Afflicted Assassin for 20 seconds because nothing you do can hurt it when a single Vamp Touch could drop it instantly.

Mostly Harmless · Aug 05, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Its not always fun when your stuck trying to kill an Afflicted Assassin for 20 seconds because nothing you do can hurt it when a single Vamp Touch could drop it instantly.

I know - it's the same for everyone else though - once the 20 secs are up then the Assassin is almost 1-2 hit kill if it hasn't healed/escaped to safety. Shadow Form is one of the few decent elites available to an Assassin [but suicide if misused] - not sure that all Afflicted Assassins should be carrying it as standard though...

Eilsys · Aug 16, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I agree that Touch doesn't need to be nerfed. Plenty of counters, and all that, point taken. But Air smite, IWAY, MM's... all those were nerfed, and smite has plenty of counters (diversion, Mantra of Flame, etc.), and supposedly a "skilled" team can beat IWAY, right?

If Anet uses the same logic as their previous nerfs, why wouldn't they do it with Touch?

Baggers · Aug 17, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Nothing is funnier than a cocky Mesmer casting Backfire on a touch ranger, thinking that it'll slow them down at all. Seriously, I laugh really hard when I see it happen.

Oh and guess what? Touch Rangers steal more life than they lose from Spiteful Spirit, so the damage is effectively negated.

Please read skill descriptions before entering battle. Also, please test a build before bragging about it on public forums. By reading this, it appears that you have never actually used these tactics on a touch ranger, but are instead claiming to have done so for popularity or recognition.

gg Necro. My Ranger looks forward to seeing you in battle.

I whacked on SS + Empathy + Isidious Parasite with my Necro (first time I really put some sort of build with it, never use him) - It seemed to cause the Ranger trouble. I don't know if all those skills stack or whatever, I was in the heat of battle :P

But yeh, those 3 skills pretty much shutdown Warriors as they'll kite coz of the hex's. It's not as effective Vs Touchers coz they heal more, but when I kept the hex's up he seemed to kite so he must of not liked it.

Please excuse me if those skills don't work fully, I was testing.

Mostly Harmless · Aug 17, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baggers

I whacked on SS + Empathy + Isidious Parasite with my Necro (first time I really put some sort of build with it, never use him)

Out of those 3, I believe only SS would affect a Touch Ranger. According to the descriptions, Empathy and Insidious Parasite trigger on attacks and I don't think touch skills are treated as attacks [which is why they can't be blocked either].

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

holden · Aug 17, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless

Out of those 3, I believe only SS would affect a Touch Ranger. According to the descriptions, Empathy and Insidious Parasite trigger on attacks and I don't think touch skills are treated as attacks [which is why they can't be blocked either].

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

thats true as far as i know. touch and bite are skills. only SS would trigger, not parasite or empathy.

but yes since touch and bite are bringing in 65 health each it's not too big of a deal to take 37 dmg.

Sir Mad · Aug 17, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

thats true as far as i know. touch and bite are skills. only SS would trigger, not parasite or empathy.

but yes since touch and bite are bringing in 65 health each it's not too big of a deal to take 37 dmg.

SS deals damage to the touchie's mates around. I remember playing a toucher (yeah and not ashamed!) in RA. There was a warrior and another toucher in the team. The opnent necro echoed SS on me and the other touchie. Just imagine what happened to our warrior who was attacking the same target...

Since then I pay more attention to this kind of stuff

Rofl_Pwnt · Aug 18, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

SS doesnt affect touchies... If we have 16 in blood we do 68 dmg..for all i know SS cant get that high...so..SS wouldnt affect us by making us take dmg...just. kind cuts our healing :|

Baggers · Aug 18, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rofl_Pwnt

SS doesnt affect touchies... If we have 16 in blood we do 68 dmg..for all i know SS cant get that high...so..SS wouldnt affect us by making us take dmg...just. kind cuts our healing :|

Fair enough, the toucher I encountered must of just been scared by the amount of hex's

But still, halving the touchers healing is worth it.